Crime and Punishment

Berkeley, Charlottesville, and “Lesser” Weapons.

Welcome Instapundit Readers. Thank you Prof. Reynolds for sending them our way. Our mission at TTAK is to combine the best knife reviews on the Internet with news, politics, humor, and culture from the knife world. Please follow us on FacebookTwitter (@knifetruth), orInstagram (@knifetruth), if you are so inclined.

The Berkeley protests/riots/battle/whatever was a little over half a year ago. Charlottesville is less than a day old. To be honest, I am a little bit freaked out as to what is happening to my country.

Violent riots are sadly an American staple. Pick a decade there is probably one if not two (or ten). There are some differences here that concern me.

If you watch any video from the riots, you will see people armed with a variety of weapons. Ironically, in the land of things that go bang that has not happened here . . . yet . . . let me repeat “yet”. There have been non-LE’s with guns – but so far those guns have remained silent. Thank God. But even if a bang has not gone off there has still been violence. Enter the idea of limited force.

These confrontations are more like rumbles than a war. Collective duels if you will. Admittedly there is overlap of the two. This is the idea of “limited” war. Just like the U.S. did not want to bomb Chinese Air bases that sheltered Communist Vietnamese jets, so too neither side (and there are sides) wants to go bang yet . . . yet.

Both sides are showing up armed. This stuff is planned way in advanced. So much so I would call that a “difference” the kind of which I alluded to earlier. Another difference is that I can honestly state that in all my years of existence I have never seen so many cops stand down when laws were being broken right in front of them. Forget just the hat – I will wear a tin foil suit for that claim.

So Americans are going at it on our streets with clubs, pepper spray, shields (lots of those to the point of weird), and “yes” “knives”. Americans are “bearing arms” although if our founders could see this I am sure they would have a WTF moment.

Cars too are being used as weapons, in this case leaving 1 dead and dozens wounded.

I am having a WTF moment too. Am I alone? Is Eden burning or is it burnt?

Historically, most wars smolder instead of blowing up. So far America is just smoldering. Am I being positive or cynical for being thankful for that?

Discussion

35 responses to ‘Berkeley, Charlottesville, and “Lesser” Weapons.

  1. It is the natural outcome of decades of race baiting, the use of fear to turn out the vote, & identity politics.
    Another great American trait, beyond rioting periodically, is to never honestly examine ourselves. We point fingers, blame, and simmer in resentment. We pick & choose words from the Bible & the Constitution, make up stuff if it isn’t there, and yell at others for not seeing our phantasm. We don’t learn & grow. In the modern world we even get to cocoon ourselves in a personalized echo chamber.
    I love my country & all the potential it represents. But that word “potential” is also a source of great frustration. It wouldn’t be so frustrating if it isn’t my country.
    Want a great country? Be great without being a self serving bastard. Don’t shout down people who point out problems. That doesn’t make problems go away or solve them. Any parent can tell you the only reason they point out problems to their kids is so their kids can improve. They don’t point out other people’s problems because they don’t love those strangers or have responsibility for them.
    We need to grow up as a country instead of taking the increasingly myopic self-centered approach we’ve been going down. Unfortunately one party has demonized empathy.
    Both sides came ready for a fight, but I really can’t blame both sides equally.

    But yeah, growing, learning, & listening isn’t happening. So stuff is going to burn. It’s our way.

    • There are now several reports & one incident captured on camera of White Supremacist groups ganging up on & beating black people.
      In the photographed incident, they are using poles. No police in evidence, but the White Nationalists have some guys in paramilitary gear.

      Superiority, when you need a dozen guys & weapons to win.

      • Of course, you conveniently ignore the fact that the black person in question struck first. I’ve seen the video. The nationalists were walking down the center of the road after being forced into hostile antifa by police revoking their legal permit and the violence came to THEM.

        And no one is claiming “superiority.” That’s your smear word. You liar.

    • “Unfortunately one party has demonized empathy.”

      But enough about the irredeemably racist Democrats and their violent genocidal words and actions.

      • Funny. Almost as funny as people claiming to believe in a biblical god & twisting only the parts that justify being self centered & greedy. Keep in mind the God they claim to believe in sees through rationalization.

        I don’t hold Democrats blameless, but a person who cares about others is redeemable and can be led to see a wider view.

      • To continue:
        I never did claim the main body of either party was genocidal. Nothing in the Democratic agenda is. Sorry, but intending to create a level playing field isn’t genocidal unless that makes any one group utterly unable to compete.
        Whether or not their laws do such a thing is another issue. But even if the laws fail their intent, no genocide happens.

        And yes, as a whole society must be economically viable. But it certainly shows the core intent when business leaders outright tell the Pope that ethics & morality cannot be considered in business because it cuts into profits.
        There is also nothing economically conservative about giving out giant tax breaks to businesses, sports or otherwise. Every study shows it never pays off for everybody else.

        Anyways, as I said I do blame both parties for the problems we have. I just blame one party far more.

        • The primary responsibility for confrontations in Berkeley and Charlottesville rests with the Democrats. It’s simply the result of years of agitation and identity politics combined with virulent leftism.

          Bluntly, you’re simply a liar.

  2. I fully denounce the Charlottesville attack. They should have used much heavier vehicles and multiple ones at that. And you come in from different directions. What kind of Nazi doesn’t know what a pincer movement is?

  3. To be honest, this is merely a reprise of the Nazi/Communist street battles of the 1920’s in Germany. Yet what is really being missed is that National SOCIALISM is a Leftist ideology. Communists & Socialists have been trying to pin this on Conservatism for 70 years. COMINTERN turned loose the fellow travellers during and after WW2 to preach this message to the point that it has become “common knowledge”…but what part of NATIONAL SOCIALIST WORKER’s PARTY sounds like a Conservative movement?

    http://thevailspot.blogspot.com/2017/08/national-socialism-is-not-conservative.html

  4. The violence at protests was seen as a sort of rugby with sticks and rocks by both sides. Witness Berkeley, for example. It takes only a little bit of effort to find lots of examples of demonstrators, both Der Alt-Right or Comrade Crtl-Left, bragging about fighting to one audience then exclaiming their peacefulness to the other. Taunting the other tribe into violence, and then proclaiming how the other team started it. It was all fun and games, just good sport. Like the pre-Shaka Zulu ritual combat between Zulu clans. Show your bravery, throw some stuff at the other guys, chant your tribe’s songs, take selfies. Then along came that one guy who didn’t get the unofficial limits, who brought a Dodge to a stick fight.

    And now someone is dead.

    The toothpaste is out of the tube, and the fun is over forever. It was chance that this time the murderer was a stupid nazi-symp 20yo, it could have just as easily been a stupid antifa 20yo, though I don’t expect any of you to admit this to yourselves. Next time, maybe it’ll be some 23yo Berkeley dropout with an SKS who will shoot randomly at the line for some Milo Y…Yanwhatever event, killing someone who is there to get a book signed. Maybe it’ll be another Nazi, who just figures that since “it’s on”, he may as well start killing.

    Good job, protestors, stick-warriors, rock-tossers, and murderers, this is why we can’t have nice things.

  5. Last time it was a progressive Bernie-worshipper shooting Republicans, this time it’s a neo-Nazi trying to shut down the progressives.

    FIFY.

  6. In my opinion, the blame for what took place in Charlottesville lies solely on the left. The young man who killed one and injured many with his car is responsible for what he did, but he would not done that had the left not shown up to disrupt the white nationalists’ planned gathering. Whether you or I or the left sympathizes with or despises white nationalists is irrelevant. Those people have a right to peaceably assemble, same as any others. Only the left disagrees. They come out wearing black masks and get in people’s faces, they assault with fists and bike locks and pepper spray, and this is the result. When Obama won in 2008, there were parties in the streets. Did anyone on the right disrupt those celebrations in any way? Of course not. Fast forward eight years, however, and Donald Trump and his supporters were denied even a normal inauguration ceremony.

    The left is driving the rise of white nationalism, to the extent such a rise is taking place. They use the word “white” as an epithet, run “whiteness studies” programs on college campuses, tear down historical monuments that bother them but matter greatly to others, etc., etc., and thus give white nationalists a legitimate reason to organize against them. Should that fringe movement grow to a significant size, the left will finally have their bogeyman, for they will have created it.

    Not long after the election, I was speaking with a woman on the left, and I said I thought we would all get along a lot better if we adhered to the federalist principles of the Constitution. Let Kansas be Kansas, I said, and California do its own thing. Let this state allow abortion and legalize marijuana, let that state do the opposite, and people can live where they feel comfortable in terms of such values. Her answer? “I don’t agree with that,” period and not a word more. My reasonable suggestion sounded anything but reasonable to her–it infuriated her that I should even think such a thing. And that’s the problem in a nutshell: Conservatives are happy–no, *eager*–to live and let live, and leftists are not. They can’t stand the thought of people living in accordance with their own, non-leftist values.

    And that is what makes what happened in Charlottesville so tragic. That march would have been a blip, a couple of days’ news stories, and then it would have been forgotten. Instead, a young woman is dead, more people are injured, a young man is headed for the nightmare of decades if not life in prison, and his and his victim’s familes are devastated. Thanks, lefties. All in a day’s work.

    • what twisted logic– the pro-Nazi demonstrators come out in force with all sorts of disgusting anti-American and racist slogans, and they expect people to just smile and wave? That 20 year old Nazi sympathizer did not have to deliberately ram his car into a group of people who were walking away from the demonstration sites. That act for political reasons was an act of terrorism, like the car attacks by jihadisits in London, France and elsewhere. To excuse it and blame it on “the lefties”is as bad as the Arab jihadists who blame their violence on Americans.

      • “…ike the car attacks by jihadisits in London, France and elsewhere.”

        Which relligion was this “Nazi sympathizer” acting in the name of?

      • I’m not defending the white nationalists, just their right to peaceably assemble without leftist brownshirts showing up to turn it into a scene out of Gangs of New York. Years ago, the ACLU defended the right of the American Nazi Party to march through a Jewish neighborhood, and while I disagree with much of what the ACLU chooses to defend, their assertion that the Nazis had a right to peaceably assemble was correct.

        And look what happened: The American Nazi Party came off like the moronic creeps they are. Their membership was already low, and it continued to plummet in the years following.

        The left used to understand that the best way to defeat Nazis is to let them show the country who they are. In contrast, this so-called Antifa movement is a menace. It’s fascistic. No one bothers the Marxist malcontents when they hold their silly protests, and that’s a good thing. The left needs to learn that tolerance is a two-way street, or we’re going to have more senseless violence. Perhaps you welcome that. I don’t. This stupid little white nationalist march would have come and gone and been a total yawn if the Antifa creeps hadn’t gone there spoiling for a fight.

      • You seem to suggest that either one must “smile and wave” at such demonstrators, or else protest them, when there’s a obviously far better choice: Ignoring them. Years ago in New York, there was a group calling themselves the Black Hebrew Israelites or some such, dressed in outlandish robes and saying the most awful racist and misogynistic things to passerby. I remember they made one girl cry, presumably because she chose to engage the misguided lunatics and they responded like the lunatics they were. Better that sue should have done what most everyone else did when passing by the Black Hebrew Israelites: pretended they weren’t there.

        • Yes, exactly. It’s how we’ve managed to get along pretty well for all these years. Live and let live. But the damn leftists with their tunnel vision cannot leave well enough alone.

      • No one has to smile and wave. They can just ignore them, and not travel in from wherever to disrupt their dumb rally and “punch a Nazi.” I hate both sides, but it’s clear that these antifa people are spoiling for a fight, and they are the ones driving the violence.

      • Wrong. These “White Nationalists” are mostly cerebral and in fact welcome black participation – you would know that if you listened to them or watched the streamed video. You ought to learn to observe and cite facts, lest you appear ignorant to other who know better than you. Vanderbilt University School of Law’s former professor Carol Swain – a black woman herself (and once a Leftist mugged by reality)- has studied the (“New”) White Nationalists and finds them very different from the violent old-style KKK and Neo-Nazis.

  7. On party controls the cities where cops are told to stand down in the hope violence will happen. And the cop in charge is a union thug beholden to the mayor/council. This explains everything.

  8. Have yet to see a Chief or even Deputy chiefs in the union , since they are management and often appointed , severing at the pleasure of the mayor .

  9. As an American and a conservative, I unequivocally repudiate the act of terrorism perpetrated by a Nazi yesterday in Charlottesville. If this incident has been reported correctly I would not only support the death penalty, I would execute this man with my own hands.

    • “If this incident has been reported correctly”

      Kind of a big if, no?

      “I would not only support the death penalty, I would execute this man with my own hands.”

      Goodness, I hope not.

  10. Many of the comments are very interesting, but I think the issue is that in these Democrat governed communities the cops stand down until violence and injuries are inevitable.

    We all have our theories about why. Regardless, the dereliction is dangerous and inexcusable.

  11. Usually those who plan to peacefully demonstrate do not feel a need to hide their identity. In fact they want people to see just who they are. On the other hand those who plan to riot and illegally attack others will go to great lengths to hide their identity. Wearing masks and hoodies. You can decide for yourself, which group is looking to riot just by looking at which group the majority of people feel the need to hide their identity. Eventually, when the authorities refuse to control those rioters, the people being attacked will rise up in their own defense. Not having been trained to use minimal force, they will often use more force than the situation calls for. Thus escalating the problem. I think many people have reached the point where they are fed up and will no longer stand by and allow rioters a free reign.

  12. When you go all-in on identity politics – and the identity you promote isn’t the majority – you run the risk of getting the majority involve in identity politics.

    And historically in identity politics, physical elimination was usually the end of whoever was defeated.

    • “When you go all-in on identity politics – and the identity you promote isn’t the majority – you run the risk of getting the majority involve in identity politics.”

      Indeed. The left is gleeful in their pronouncements that white people will become a minority in the US, and since they consider whites the fount of all evil in the world, they should not be surprised if whites hear an implicit threat in their excitement and start voting as an ethnic bloc.

  13. Re: the police ‘standing down’

    Points to consider. First, the police were outnumbered by armed criminals who went there that day looking for a fight. Both sides are anti-police to some extent or another and lose no sleep over police getting killed. So why, exactly, should the police try and jump in between these two batches of violent extremists to save them from each other when EVERYONE THERE knew or should have known what was going to happen (hence so many people bringing weapons)? The police kept the violent crowds from spreading to other places as much as possible and kept them contained. And imagine if they had done anything using force how much criticism they would face.

    On a micro-level I remember being taught that if you walk in a bar and see three or four guys fighting, you’re an idiot to try and play hero by charging between them. You don’t know who started it, you don’t know who might be willing to choke you out from behind, and they’re all probably morons. Similar idea here, except instead of 4 guys you have hundreds, maybe thousands.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *